W2 to Owner – Get Your Finances in Order with Dave Lowell

Ryan 0:02

All right welcome to another round of Let's Buy A Business. I'm your host Ryan Conde where we dive into all things acquisitions, buying, selling, financing them, you name it. So we're gonna dive in here with Dave Lowe. He was on the podcast about a year and a half ago. I've got a link to it there in the show notes below. But Dave is awesome because he is a financial planner, but he's not your parents financial planner, where save all your money. Hopefully you have good knees in your life. When you're 65 and start enjoying life, we see the exact opposite of how do we have a great life? How do we build great businesses at the same time? And then how do we prepare for the future but also not sacrifice the fun now, so one of the things that's interesting about Dave is he's worked with a lot of high net worth net worth individuals, and also also lots of high earning individuals in there that are younger, that maybe don't fit the typical Oh, 65 year old that's got a lot of money lying around. Okay, so that's one of the reasons why he got out of financial planning and its traditional sense. So I wanted to talk to him about how he has seen a lot of people shift over from w two earner to being a business owner. This is a very common question to keep getting, it's a topic we've talked about a little bit, but Dave actually has real world experience more so than just mine, we actually talked about his actual plan and what he did when he switched over from a W two to business owner, which was incredibly similar to mine, so I appreciate the vulnerability that he dives into here. We also dive into a little bit more about the reason Dave was top of mind was I took his financial freedom blueprint course, I actually was one of the first ones I guess I was one of the first people who had access to it, I signed up for it just because I've had such incredible conversations with Dave and really appreciate what he's doing and building there. And what's cool about that course is you have the ability to piecemeal it so it's got all sorts of information in there. You're not supposed to just go from A to Z pick up the topics that are interesting to you. And three weeks later, you're gonna have another question. And he even mentioned that the thing with personal finances that never ends so we talk a little bit about his course you can find the link for it there in the show notes down below. He actually gave a pretty big listeners discount link there in the show notes. And with that in mind, we're gonna go ahead and jump in into the interview with Dave This episode is brought to you by Divi Divi gives your business the fast access to credit and spending control that you need. You can even have your employees get their own cards if you like and get real control over budget limits. They have beautiful dashboards that let you make real business decisions that impact your bottom line. Exclusive to the let's buy business podcast to get $25 just by taking a demo to learn more about Divi you can sign up below or at Let's buy a business.com/db that's di VV why let's buy a business.com/db This episode is brought to you by the exit producers playbook written by Joe Valli the exit printers playbook is known as the ultimate guide to selling your online business. But if you are running an online business, it's the other team's playbook in a definitely must read. It's absolutely fantastic. Joe was actually on a podcast episode in 2021. But we worked out a specialty with Joe to give away five free copies of the exit brewers playbook per episode. Just go to let's buy a business.com/exit. That's let's buy business.com/exit To get your free copy and read it on your Kindle iBook NOAC iPhone, whatever you're reading your digital books, Joe I know him personally has helped facilitate over 500 million in only Nexus ensures everything he knows about exits and acquisitions in the exit printers playbook. Get your copy now at Let's buy a business.com/exit. So Dave, I think we had you on the show, maybe a year or so ago. I'll link to it in the show notes and everything. For those who don't know you and what you're doing or follow you on LinkedIn. Tell us a bit about your background how you got here.

Dave Lowe 3:31

Cool. Yeah, first of all, thanks for having me back. First time was a blast is a lot of fun. And the podcast is awesome. I love it. So

Ryan 3:37

as a little tidbit, we got so much good feedback on that episode. I still get people who messaged me about that episode. And it was easily a year 18 months ago. So yes, yeah, it

Dave Lowe 3:45

was a long time ago.

Ryan 3:46

Yeah. Evergreen content for you there Dave.

Dave Lowe 3:48

I know. I still have people hit me up. Okay, I heard you on the podcast, like sweet but yeah, so my background, I was in college, Middle Eastern Studies, Arabic majors gonna go work for the government and some agency who knows. And I just got to the end of my bachelor's degree and I was like, You know what, I don't know anything about money. I you know, zero. I grew up in like, normal middle class home. We did okay, but that was pretty much it. I didn't know anything about it. And so I was like, Okay, first, before I work for the government, I'm gonna go figure out money. So I just got a job at Fidelity Investments. And I viewed it as like a paid inter paid apprenticeship. Like they paid me, for me to learn everything I wanted to learn. It was great. It was it was fantastic. So during that process, I just found number one, I really liked this. And I get it like it clicks in my mind. And number two, the vast majority of people are the opposite of me. They don't like it and it doesn't click, and there's not enough there's so much need for it. And so I said, Hey, you know, this is a career for me. So I did traditional Wealth Management after fidelity, managing millions of dollars for people getting into retirement and everything. And I just hit a point where I said I want to help people that were like me, that were young. Give them a solid start. So that they know what trajectory they're on and the 30 years of strategy. There's so much potential locked up in that like multiple millions of dollars that people can unlock by just having a strategy early on. So yeah, I built my own coaching practice. And here we are.

Ryan 5:17

Yeah, thanks for that background. That's awesome. I one thing that's always stuck out with me, and your story is some of the pivot switch switches that you made in your career. It's like Arabic studies go work for the government, I'm gonna go work for fidelity, which is complete opposite. But then you said something interesting, that I've always I thought about and loved that in your story is, you realize every all the financial planners are going after the 60 year old, the six year old, has got a bunch of money, they sold their business, they've been putting money away for 30 years, they did everything right, and they want to manage their money, the problem is fighting over this kind of limited market. And what you said is, how do I take this skill set and apply it to someone who's 30 years younger. And that's actually where you get to 30 years of compounding effect, because you probably ran into a lot of people in their 60s that made all the mistakes that they should have made earlier on. But just the way the structure of financial planning is and the incentives, it's, oh, you only work with rich people, because somebody who's not rich yet, it doesn't work. And I'll give you an example. I've gone through five CPAs, in 12 years since graduating from college. And the reason is because my first business soccer went out of business, and my business has progressively gotten better and better. But you're at the beginning, you don't get any time from your CPA. And the tax planning is I can't tax plan in April, it's too late, like I needed this call back in October or November. It's a part of it is I did a better job, but like working with CPAs. And part of it is I just got more important to CPAs. And now they take my calls. So with that in mind, one one of the things that I thought was interesting you and I've jammed a lot about it, I see you as more of an entrepreneur who is a financial planner, rather than a financial planner, who has a business with a lot of questions that I get from listeners This is one of the most common ones is we have a lot of listeners who are trying to make the switch from w two to business known or w two to entrepreneur, you've worked with hundreds and hundreds of families and couples and individuals working with their money. What are some examples that you've seen that people do right in trying to get the financial freedom and then make the switch to take some risks? And what do you do see some things that they do wrong? And making that switch or not ever been able to make that switch?

Dave Lowe 7:17

Yeah, such a good question. What's so interesting about that actually, is yesterday I had somebody call me and then I think we haven't talked in a while. But I know you work with people with high intent, and I want to know what they're doing. Like, what are they investing in? What are they spending their time on? And they're like, What are the people that are earning six, seven figures that you're working with? What do they do? Like, how do I get there?

Ryan 7:38

Maybe answered that question, maybe answer that question first, before you answer mine. That's a better question.

Dave Lowe 7:42

And the answer was, it was like immediate, like they own a business. That's it. Like, everything else that's investing is investing in investing is like almost by definition, it's passive. But if you're an active investor, it's less of investing in more of a business. And so if you're actively engaged in creating a venture, and you're putting your own time in, and you're leveraging your skill, that's a business, whether it's in real estate, whether it's in buying and flipping businesses or starting businesses and selling out or whatever it is, that's a business. And so the definition is like, a lot more raw than people might realize. But if you want to crack the ceiling, on income and wealth, like a business is the answer, like it is the answer. So I just had to add that it's not so interesting yesterday, in terms of your question. So yeah, I definitely see a bunch of examples both ways. What it comes down to is the ones that are successful, have a solid, personal finance Foundation, like they've taken care of the ABCs of finance, so to speak. And so it allows them to take bigger risks, right, make bigger bets. Because even if it fails, they still have a solid foundation, they're falling back are the ones that have failed. And the ones that don't do well, entrepreneurship is a it's hard. So there's failure, like you said, your personal, it just that is how it is. And so without that foundation, when the failure comes, it can be devastating. And so it's it really is it really does start with creating that foundation. So for example, I'll give you once had somebody that they started a business paying this is a it's a fairly low overhead business, it's in services, okay. And you're affiliated with a group, so you could join in and your 1099 and but it's your own business. And they sunk in so much money, and they got into a ton of debt, just to make it work and they couldn't make the business work. Okay. So what happened is they ended up wrapping that up, right, they had to shut it down when got a normal job. But then they had a ton of credit card debt. They had a HELOC. That was out against their against their house. So they had even more debt than just their mortgage. And they were basically starting from scratch. their credit score takes and they were just Like, okay, I'm gonna go w two for a while and earn some money to figure this out, it really was the building blocks of finances that weren't quite there for them to take that risk. And that's okay, everybody's got to learn at their own time. There's all love for that person because it's hard. But with those building blocks in place, even a failure like that they have something to fall back on. It didn't build off of so the next thing that they try not starting from ground zero again, not starting from ground zero, because that can be a hard Holden's to get out of, and not a foster, like, I know a lot of people that are very wealthy, that have declared bankruptcy at one point, like, that's not uncommon. And I know several people like that. But it is a harder hole to climb out of, and psychologically and emotionally very difficult, especially in a marriage and all of that. You've mentioned

Ryan 10:43

something in there, Dave, about building blocks. And this is not a one size fits all discussion. This is more for listeners to get there are the wheels turning in their brains to figure out how they can step back their way into some of their goals. And inevitably goals typically fall in line with financial goals, because you're not going to hit your goals without some kind of financial goals to you said building blocks. So this isn't a one size fits all. But what are some of the building blocks? Is it that they have other income that's coming in while they're taking a bigger risk is that they've got money set aside that setting the 401k that they don't want to touch? What are some of these building blocks that you've seen that have worked well for people?

Dave Lowe 11:16

Yeah, so I'll name a couple of them. There's no specific order here, but they have low debt, low consumer debt, I should say. And one of the reasons that I think, you know, the trend I'm seeing as to why that's important is because they've got their lifestyle under control. And it gives them flexibility, that if you were to, if you're spending money like crazy, and you don't really have any rhyme or reason to what you're doing, but you're not really building up any capital to do anything with, then all of a sudden, when you don't have an income, like if you go start a business, or you go buy one, like your run rate, your runway is a lot shorter. Like maybe you can go three months, before you have to recoup all your income, before you're just out of money because your lifestyle spending is so high. And so that's one common trait I've seen among those that have been successful in making that leap, is they control their living expenses. Like that's pretty basic. Not like they're living on rice and beans, but they know their numbers, how much am I spending? What's absolutely essential? And what could I get away with, you know, if I didn't have income for a while, while I'm building up, or something like that. So low consumer debt and like a control on what money is going out. That's that's one thing. A second thing is, especially if they're married, like they've got to be on the same page. Right? Together. Cool,

Ryan 12:42

then my dog is interrupted by the hound sorry, all spouse has been on the same page. Talk a little bit about that, because this is actually something I tell a lot of people about. And I don't think enough conversations are happening around this. And what that looks like is usually when you leave a W two new, either by business or start your own business or do something that is out of that realm, you're in 99% of the time your income is going to go down. Yep. What does that mean? Disneyworld is not on the table, right? Like, you have to figure out what's necessary, and get rid of the stuff that is it. So talk a little bit about that, and how those conversations have gone poorly or Well, or you've seen those within other relationships,

Dave Lowe 13:21

it's so important to be dialed in on the same page and understand your values together. Right, because what has happened in the bad cases, you've probably seen this, maybe you've been experienced it, I probably have, to some extent as well with my wife in my own ventures, where it's maybe we're not totally on the same page. And we want different things. And we just don't understand each other. So in some of the, in some of the poor cases, it can, it can build a lot of resentment. Because like you said, income is most likely going to go down at the beginning. That's just how it is. And so if it goes down, and you have to cut out Disneyland, or you have to sell the nicer car, or maybe downgrade or you can't quite build the new house you were wanting to build, or you have to watch expenses a lot more than your than normal. And the spouse isn't on board with that. Either. There's a lot of fight like they say things and there's like a lot of conflict where they don't say anything, and there's just this resentment that builds up. And if things don't work out, that resentment sticks around and intensifies. That's just how it is. It's Oh, shoot, we went through all of that. And now we're even in a worse spot. And I don't want you to start a business anyways. Or I never want you to buy that. No, I was never on board. And it's like what and that can happen on both sides too. Right? But either spouse, it's nobody's immune to that. And so really understanding Okay, what do we value in our life? Is it the new house? Is it the fancy cars? If it is, maybe we should keep our high paying job and maybe wait before we take a leap? But if we have different values, like we want autonomy over our time, and we want flexibility, right? Even if we don't have all the income in the world, especially the beginning if we value those things more. And we can get on the same page as spouses about that, then it's okay, if we take this leap, we're leaning into our values that we're both aligned on, and whatever happens, but we're both in it, like 100%, we're all in on this thing. And it's that that unity, like that creates momentum, it reduces friction. So there's not always problems like every month when the income drops a little bit. It's not like there's friction, it's okay, that the right let's figure this out. So that spousal relationship is so important at aligning on values there is, it's huge. And

Ryan 15:35

I think those conversations need to start very early on, but I'm talking years in advance before someone takes this leap. Because if you haven't had these conversations, you're probably not building the foundation that allows you to then jump off something just totally random. I went to lunch with two super successful entrepreneurs. Last week, two friends of mine, they didn't know each other, we all connected. And we're sitting there eating. And naturally, the conversation ended up we started talking about our spouses and these two, what was interesting about them, they were incredibly successful, but their spouses do not care whether they drive like a brand new car or a 10 year old car. And I thought this is have to be the case. This is you can't do you entrepreneurship, if you like nice cars, but both of them have made millions and lost millions in a month, like way up or way down different times. And there, it didn't impact their spouses view on things. And I'm saying like, that's pretty difficult to do. And I would say that's probably difficult for me, it's difficult for most people. But what's important there is that's an extreme version. But it's also works well for them. But they've obviously had a lot of questions around finances and what's important, what's not important. And if we need to cut things out, we need to do that.

Dave Lowe 16:40

Yeah, I think, like you said, it takes time to build into that. And it takes like for both to really buy in, you have to have a very open relationship. All marriages do, frankly, if you want to. So

Ryan 16:52

some marital advice of David Ryan Manohla, and

Dave Lowe 16:55

you have to be really open and be willing to have those hard conversations, because if one is not all the way in, it's just not, it's not going to be good, or at least has the potential well,

Ryan 17:05

in what I've seen it for the most part in working with a lot of entrepreneurs and searchers, or whoever is when you don't have those conversations, you think you can get your business up and running in three months, and you can't, you just can't you need longer than three months probably need longer than 12 months, usually, in most entrepreneurs that I've talked to you. And I've talked to dozens who have gone from w two to successful entrepreneur, and dozens who haven't done it successfully. And on average, it seems like it's about two years date before you kind of like you're doing really well through WSU, it drops way down and it's slowly triples up. It doesn't jump way back up. But it's usually about a two year Valley. I don't blame anybody for not wanting to go through that valley valley of the shadow of death. It's not very fun, though. It's brutal. Yeah, it is brutal. And you're cutting back and all sorts of areas. And there's tough conversations to have, but you should expect a two year and if it happens in 12 months, great. You just have that much more of a buffer to protect yourself, Rob.

Dave Lowe 18:01

Yeah, that's exactly right. But yeah, you have to be prepared for the long haul. It's interesting when you talk about this, because yeah, this part of the financial foundation, like being aligned with your spouse, it also works like if you're single, right? being aligned with your highest value, what is it that you actually want? And if there's something that you want so badly, then you're willing to go through a lot of pain and difficulty to make it happen. And so at different points in my business, I haven't had the highest income. But it was also extremely happy and fulfilled. It didn't bother me that couldn't go get my vacation home yet. You know, we're happy, simple, because, like I was doing something, spending all my energy and time on something that fully aligned with my values. And I still do I work on that actively. And it makes those periods, that valley that you talked about, it makes it so much more bearable for both people for both spouses. No, this is what's important to us. And we just, you just keep cruising. So yeah, super close.

Ryan 19:01

I've talked to three entrepreneurs in the last two weeks Dave, who they're looking to sell their businesses. And what's interesting there is they have wonderful businesses. And the question is Why sell right? Why do you want to sell this business and they say, in order for me to take this business to the next level, I would need to hire people, I need to put in more than more than 20 hours a week, I need to put in 40 hours I need to build out an office and that's not the lifestyle. I'm looking for it in that sense. They actually they still guilty that they didn't want to grow get big, like everything in America, but they actually said, I'm very aware of what I want. And once they once I was like, Yeah, that's actually pretty common. It's okay to not want to hire a team and go huge. They're like, Okay, other people do that. And like, yeah, they go lifestyle. First. They're building their business around their lifestyle supports their lifestyle. So you've got the building blocks of the financial side, you need that foundation, you've got spousal support, anything you've seen else that might make it so you're a winner as you make that switch.

Dave Lowe 19:50

Yeah. So I would say like, how you position your capital in advance is really important. And what I mean by that is, especially when we're w two It's common advice is like contribute to your 401 k, right? Get the match put into retirement accounts, whether you're getting a tax deduction, or it's going to Roth, like that's a smart move. And don't get me wrong. I like retirement accounts. Like I have them. You're a financial planner. Yes, I'm a financial planner. It'd be like blasphemous. But to be honest, retirement accounts are built for one type of investment vehicle primarily, which is stocks. And there's nothing wrong with that. Okay. But in exchange for these tax benefits, you're, you're giving up some flexibility with that money, though

Ryan 20:32

tying it up. So you hit 59 or 60 years old like that,

Dave Lowe 20:35

right? Yeah, yeah. And so it could be a part, right? Like, I have clients that absolutely put money in the form, okay, others should probably stop putting money in there. Because your goals ultimately are this way, like, you want to go buy a business, okay, you need access to cash them. So stop putting in $20,000 a year to your 401k. And keep that more or less liquid and accessible, so that you can when you find the right deal, or you have the right opportunity, you can jump on it. So like positioning capital, retirement accounts are not the answer for everybody. They are a vehicle, but it's not God's gift to mankind for future financial wealth, you know what I mean? And so it's just be smart about where you're positioning that. And in addition to that, if you take care of your consumer debt, then you have the opportunity to get access to other capital, you can. So let me tell you what I did. Can I just share exactly what I did when I started my business? Absolutely, that'd be great. The first thing that I did was, I looked at all of our expenses. And I boiled down to the absolute bare minimum fixed costs for living. And I found that number, and I don't even know what number that is now. But it had the mortgage utilities groceries, like, what is it that we just need for live? And I took that number. And I was like, okay, but let's just say it's like, 4000 a month, I can't remember it. Okay, it's four grand a month. Okay, that's reasonable. So then I looked at my house. And at that time, I think in my house, I had probably, I don't have like 100. And I don't know, maybe like $100,000 of equity, let's say that I could tap into. I'm like, Okay, if all else fails, I could still sell the house and we'd have 100k. And that would keep us going for another two years. That makes sense, like $48,000 a year. Yeah, boom. So 100,000 in my house, if worse, came to worse. And I was on the cusp, I could sell our house. And we could still live. And then I had my retirement accounts, I had other investment accounts, I basically added up all of my capital, or access to capital. And I said, What's my run rate? What How long could I go with zero income. And for me, it ended up being like two and a half years, between retirement accounts and home equity and other stuff. And so then I had to ask myself, can I make it? Can I make something successful? In two and a half years? That's sort of the dollar of income Reagan retire soon after years of zero income? Can I figure something out? If I can, I shouldn't be an entrepreneur. And I should just go get a job. So I added up all my capital against my absolute lowest expenses. And I said, Okay, that's it. And during that time, right before I quit, I went out and I got a HELOC on my house. When I still had to pay, do you need an income? Yes, I needed income, WT verification. So I go and I maxed out if you lock on my house. And then I went and I raised the limit on all my credit cards, I got a couple of this has access to capital. Now I'm not going to over leverage myself, because I have the assets to back it up. But credit can float me for a while until it comes due. But I didn't ever take on more debt than I had capital to pay off if I needed to. So I wasn't like digging myself a hole. But I was floating it. With my retirement accounts. I had a Roth IRA, I took money out, you can take out your contribution. Without any penalty or any tax, the growth stays in there. If you take that out, it's penalized in tax, your contributions you can take out at any time. So it got to the point well, yeah, I'll tap into that, like I need 10k. So I took 10k from my Roth boom from my IRAs, my my traditional IRAs, you can take out money. This is not they don't the IRS does

Ryan 24:02

this. This is not a financial planning advice. By the way. This

Dave Lowe 24:05

is one example. So Zachary. So the IRA, the IRS doesn't really like you to look at it this way. But you can do what's called a 60 day rollover. Okay, and essentially, that just means that you can take cash out of an IRA. And as long as you put it back within 60 days, there's no taxes and no penalty. Can the reason they had this move your IRA from one custodian to another at fidelity to Vanguard, sometimes there's mail to check in takes time. So if I need a cast, I just You can do that once every rolling year. Okay, every calendar year or every 52 weeks, you can do that. So I go in, I tapped into my IRA when I needed cash, and I held on to it. And then 60 days later I go in I pay it back there's no penalty. And once I have I paid it back by taking out money from these, my wife's IRA because I was just floating I was floating money so like if I can hold on long enough I know I can be successful and sure enough, like the revenue started picking up, I started just paying all that back, I took it he locked in and paid off the other IRA. But then I just paid back the HELOC and then my cash flow was going, okay. So I never took out more debt or over leveraged myself beyond the assets I have. But I treated, I put capital in the right spots, and then I created access to cash, that would get me over a hump. And if all else failed, and I ran out of money, and I sold my house, then I'd be like 30 years old with no assets. And I'd still be in the top 50% of my age group, because everybody has student loans. And I didn't first

Ryan 25:31

update, thanks for explaining that story. Because, you know, you kind of open up a lot, you're vulnerable there. What's so interesting is my example. And I've ever told my example of kind of making the switch was almost identical to that we had, I want to say just shy of two and a half years of runway, we did, I did the exact same thing, bare minimum, okay, this is what I need to do for my mortgage, I didn't have a car payment. This is like bare minimum, putting food on the table for my kids. My kids are young, they don't know if I'm Richard for if they don't care, they just know if I'm jumping on a trampoline with them. And I said the same thing is like just shy of two and a half years. So it was like, Okay, if I can't make money in two years, I literally should not be doing this. And I'm blessed that this is a job. This is a hard play, like we're pulling this out. And if this doesn't work, okay, we're going back into the workforce and do what I need to do. I pulled money out of the IRA I did, I had some lines of credit with other businesses that I made sure I had access to that I could tap into if I needed to do all the things that you said were almost identical to what you did. And the psychology of that to date is month one, you're all excited month two, you're pretty excited. Month five, like crap, I haven't made any money yet. This is still going down, right? Anytime something goes down. It's not very fun, right? So there's a psychology effect. That is it just there. Even though you've got two and half years, your your psychology effect is real, it can really impact you going through these exercises. It's almost more for like knowledge, but also like you have to put your brain to these things because you're gonna want to pull the plug like five, five months in, I can't take this anymore. Your spouse can't take it anymore. I'm gonna go back and get a job. I think it was like 18 months. And before I was like, I feel comfortable enough that I don't feel the urge to like dust off my resume and go get a job. Yeah,

Dave Lowe 27:13

totally. I love that. It's so funny that they're so similar. But it really is like the ups and downs, especially in that first little bit are so intense. Emotionally, was the hardest part like financial it's and whatever. But emotionally it was, it was hard. Yeah. And you still you can feel down

Ryan 27:30

in the dumps, like, truly you feel down in the dumps. I'm not I'm like doing a disservice to my family. Like, I'm not supporting them mostly to the breadwinner here. I'm supposed to be doing X, Y, and Z and you're not and you could feel on crap. Sometimes it just feel miserable.

Dave Lowe 27:43

If I've ever been through depression, it was then for sure. Yeah, it's hard. It's brutal. So you really do have to prepare your psyche. Like you have to, you have to understand like, what's the worst that can when

Ryan 27:53

you have a paycheck, and you have surplus, and you're constantly putting towards your 401k. And it's going up because from 2010 to 2020 Never went down all these things, you just had this thing, everything's green, it always goes up all of a sudden it hits red and hits red month over month. And it's not very fun. If we could talk for hours on this. I know you don't have hours. One of the reasons also I reached out to Dave is you have launched the community and of course, and I had the fortunate benefit of being part of some of your founding members, one of your first people that went through your course and I say course loosely, this is different than any course I've ever been to. It's incredibly thorough. It covers all these different topics of personal finance, from crypto strategies all the way through, you name it 401 K's to everything. And one thing that I thought was really important is finding out what the goals and the whys and why you're doing certain things. So I wanted to put a plug in for that, because I think is incredible. And you're getting access to something that typically costs 510 10s of 1000s of dollars. Tell us a little bit about your course what it's like Oh, and one thing that I love about it, David is kind of like a buffet, you don't have to consume it from A to Z. I've gone through and just pulled out little sections here, little sections there that I've liked. But tell us a bit about what you've been working on. And this is not something you put together in three days. This is something you've been working on for years. And it's taking you months and months to put this together. So tell us a bit about it. Yeah,

Dave Lowe 29:09

appreciate that. Yes, it really has been a marathon. And what I wanted to do is really take all of my knowledge around all these different topics and how I've worked with my clients one on one and capsulate that in a format where anybody can do it at a fraction of the cost, they can DIY their own plan. And it's not like you're like you said I'm not a financial advisor that owns my own business. I'm an entrepreneur that happens to do financial planning. So it's not your typical contribute 10% to your Ross 401k And stay out of debt. It's it really is you can build your own path to financial freedom using any of the tools available for one K's real estate business all on the table. And the interesting thing though, about personal finance is you can never stop learning. There's so much to know that you can just get lost in like pages of Google results and instant invested PDF. And so I wanted to create something. And I've started courses just like you, right? I've started courses that I never finished.